Comments on: Agile: When is a story done? http://www.markhneedham.com/blog/2009/01/04/agile-when-is-a-story-done/ Thoughts on Software Development Sat, 11 Feb 2012 23:17:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Frank Carver’s Punch Barrel / Agile: When is a story done? http://www.markhneedham.com/blog/2009/01/04/agile-when-is-a-story-done/comment-page-1/#comment-3819 Frank Carver’s Punch Barrel / Agile: When is a story done? Sat, 17 Jan 2009 20:46:30 +0000 http://www.markhneedham.com/blog/?p=806#comment-3819 [...] Agile: When is a story done? at Mark Needham [...] [...] Agile: When is a story done? at Mark Needham [...]

]]> By: Nolan Evans http://www.markhneedham.com/blog/2009/01/04/agile-when-is-a-story-done/comment-page-1/#comment-2598 Nolan Evans Tue, 06 Jan 2009 22:21:24 +0000 http://www.markhneedham.com/blog/?p=806#comment-2598 Hey Mark, Good post, I agree with the idea that something is really only "done" when it is deployed to production. However I have only been on one team that actually did this. If it wasn't deployed to production the story could not be counted as finished in the iteration. The team did not always operate this way and it is definitely no small task to get to a point where you can do this. I think being able to do it matters for many reasons other then simply tracking velocity. You've got me thinking about how much fun it was to work like that again and I am going to have to make a blog post on why it is my favorite way to work. -Nolan Hey Mark,

Good post, I agree with the idea that something is really only “done” when it is deployed to production.

However I have only been on one team that actually did this. If it wasn’t deployed to production the story could not be counted as finished in the iteration. The team did not always operate this way and it is definitely no small task to get to a point where you can do this.

I think being able to do it matters for many reasons other then simply tracking velocity. You’ve got me thinking about how much fun it was to work like that again and I am going to have to make a blog post on why it is my favorite way to work.

-Nolan

]]> By: Olof Bjarnason http://www.markhneedham.com/blog/2009/01/04/agile-when-is-a-story-done/comment-page-1/#comment-2583 Olof Bjarnason Tue, 06 Jan 2009 07:49:52 +0000 http://www.markhneedham.com/blog/?p=806#comment-2583 Nice discussion ... Like Jasons sum-up: since "Done" means different things, the story really goes through a state-transition or a process: The story is written The story is in production (but not all ACs pass) All ACs (acceptance criteria) pass Packaged (lies in some Setup.exe or equivalent) In production (installed at customer) Nice discussion … Like Jasons sum-up: since “Done” means different things, the story really goes through a state-transition or a process:

The story is written
The story is in production (but not all ACs pass)
All ACs (acceptance criteria) pass
Packaged (lies in some Setup.exe or equivalent)
In production (installed at customer)

]]> By: Jason http://www.markhneedham.com/blog/2009/01/04/agile-when-is-a-story-done/comment-page-1/#comment-2555 Jason Mon, 05 Jan 2009 14:27:05 +0000 http://www.markhneedham.com/blog/?p=806#comment-2555 "Done" means different things to different people. We have created our done criteria on a few levels. Task, Story, Sprint and Release. There are different 'done' criteria for each of those. For example, a task is done when the code is written and a unit test(s) is written. A story is done when a code review has happened and all tasks within that story are done. There are a handful of done criteria items for each bucket but it makes it easier for developers to understand what is required of them and also helps the business side to know what they are getting when something is 'done' “Done” means different things to different people. We have created our done criteria on a few levels. Task, Story, Sprint and Release.

There are different ‘done’ criteria for each of those. For example, a task is done when the code is written and a unit test(s) is written. A story is done when a code review has happened and all tasks within that story are done.

There are a handful of done criteria items for each bucket but it makes it easier for developers to understand what is required of them and also helps the business side to know what they are getting when something is ‘done’

]]> By: Dew Drop - January 5, 2009 | Alvin Ashcraft's Morning Dew http://www.markhneedham.com/blog/2009/01/04/agile-when-is-a-story-done/comment-page-1/#comment-2552 Dew Drop - January 5, 2009 | Alvin Ashcraft's Morning Dew Mon, 05 Jan 2009 14:11:57 +0000 http://www.markhneedham.com/blog/?p=806#comment-2552 [...] Agile: When Is a Story Done? (Mark Needham) [...] [...] Agile: When Is a Story Done? (Mark Needham) [...]

]]> By: Dew Drop - January 5, 2009 | Alvin Ashcraft's Morning Dew http://www.markhneedham.com/blog/2009/01/04/agile-when-is-a-story-done/comment-page-1/#comment-2553 Dew Drop - January 5, 2009 | Alvin Ashcraft's Morning Dew Mon, 05 Jan 2009 14:11:57 +0000 http://www.markhneedham.com/blog/?p=806#comment-2553 [...] Agile: When Is a Story Done? (Mark Needham) [...] [...] Agile: When Is a Story Done? (Mark Needham) [...]

]]> By: scot http://www.markhneedham.com/blog/2009/01/04/agile-when-is-a-story-done/comment-page-1/#comment-2539 scot Mon, 05 Jan 2009 08:24:01 +0000 http://www.markhneedham.com/blog/?p=806#comment-2539 Dennis Stevens has it right: "done" is actually through multiple stages - analysis done; story card written; passed automated acceptance tests (development done); subject matter expert signoff; business approval; in production. However production is indeed when it is truly "done". So you should measure a team's output by "story points in production". Dennis Stevens has it right: “done” is actually through multiple stages – analysis done; story card written; passed automated acceptance tests (development done); subject matter expert signoff; business approval; in production. However production is indeed when it is truly “done”. So you should measure a team’s output by “story points in production”.

]]> By: Business Analyst http://www.markhneedham.com/blog/2009/01/04/agile-when-is-a-story-done/comment-page-1/#comment-2526 Business Analyst Mon, 05 Jan 2009 01:30:58 +0000 http://www.markhneedham.com/blog/?p=806#comment-2526 Given the goal of Agile to work in an iterative manner and to deliver value to the business as soon as possible, I would say that "In Production" is what counts. What is the value of agile development if the business/customer only gets a couple of releases a year? Having said that, there is still value in getting sign-off on the stories earlier in the process to ensure you're working on the right requirements. To accomplish this you should consider having a process where you could use either the business stakeholder (especially high risk features) as well as the business analyst. - Adrian Given the goal of Agile to work in an iterative manner and to deliver value to the business as soon as possible, I would say that “In Production” is what counts.

What is the value of agile development if the business/customer only gets a couple of releases a year?

Having said that, there is still value in getting sign-off on the stories earlier in the process to ensure you’re working on the right requirements. To accomplish this you should consider having a process where you could use either the business stakeholder (especially high risk features) as well as the business analyst.

- Adrian

]]> By: Dennis Stevens http://www.markhneedham.com/blog/2009/01/04/agile-when-is-a-story-done/comment-page-1/#comment-2509 Dennis Stevens Sun, 04 Jan 2009 20:56:17 +0000 http://www.markhneedham.com/blog/?p=806#comment-2509 Done has different meanings. Code done, successfully tested, business acceptance, and into production all matter. By tracking points per period at each step you can determine the velocity of your project and find constraints in your process. From a value standpoint, the user story isn't done until the targeted user (or system) is leveraging the code in production to create the intended benefit for the organization. Done has different meanings. Code done, successfully tested, business acceptance, and into production all matter. By tracking points per period at each step you can determine the velocity of your project and find constraints in your process.

From a value standpoint, the user story isn’t done until the targeted user (or system) is leveraging the code in production to create the intended benefit for the organization.

]]> By: Nate http://www.markhneedham.com/blog/2009/01/04/agile-when-is-a-story-done/comment-page-1/#comment-2497 Nate Sun, 04 Jan 2009 17:28:48 +0000 http://www.markhneedham.com/blog/?p=806#comment-2497 I've seen many of the same stages. I don't know if any of them is "better", but I'm always pushing to get things in to production. The key is that if you're using the term "done" you define what it means for your current team. I came in to a project where they had outlawed the word because they never came to agreement on its meaning. I’ve seen many of the same stages. I don’t know if any of them is “better”, but I’m always pushing to get things in to production. The key is that if you’re using the term “done” you define what it means for your current team. I came in to a project where they had outlawed the word because they never came to agreement on its meaning.

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